Dog affected with NCL

[Lesya]

I stumbled upon this video on youtube... I've heard of NCL, I'm familiar with its symptoms as described in text... but I've never actually seen it.

Heartbreaking. This dog is obviously happy and spirited, but trapped in a broken body.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS1iHh1XbKE

[AmyNorcalsAB]

I have seen this video before, I posted it on some of the other bulldog boards where a lot of new people are breeding these dogs without even knowing what NCL is.  Very sad! 

[Reed4]

Heartbreaking

[nicolepagelee]

I think that there are a couple breeders that come to this board that breed NCL dogs, they can explain more about it, and how they are responsible about the breedings, and why they choose to do them.

[Lesya]

Nicole, at some point a decision must be made to stop breeding NCL carriers (I hope that is what you are referring to and not +/+ dogs) and stop perpetuating this disease. On top of that, it should be made mandatory to test dogs prior to breeding or else put a stipulation on litter registration. If someone is insistent on breeding a carrier, all puppies from the litter should be tested prior to sale and any carriers sterilized before sale.

This is a genetically simple disease to eliminate from the gene pool and there is no legitimate excuse for not at least testing dogs and being aware of your stock's NCL status.

[Harp]

They should cull them.  Anyone who breeds a carrier should be called out. No dog is that good that it has to be bred !!!!!!!!!!!
So lets make a list of breeders who we know that will sell/breed a carrier.

[Lesya]

I like that idea, Harp.

[JenniferB]

   My aunt just had to put her's down to NCL....
It is a duty for breeders to make sure they test thier dogs....

[Lynda]

They should cull them.  Anyone who breeds a carrier should be called out. No dog is that good that it has to be bred !!!!!!!!!!!
So lets make a list of breeders who we know that will sell/breed a carrier.

Of course NCL is a terrible disease but to eliminate all carriers from the gene pool would not be wise . Because you don't know what other traits (desirable ones) might also be linked up with it. And by excluding all carriers you could potentially be eliminating a highly sought after trait. Besides, NCL is a simple recessive which makes it easy to work around and get rid of without using such drastic measures. However breeders need to be aware! And test all breeding stock before breeding especially if their dogs are down off Hines Snow Bird or dogs related to her.
Carriers should only ever be bred to clears ...period! Because the offspring will either be carriers or clears and not affecteds. Affecteds being the only way the NCL gene can physically express itself. So by adhering to this simple practice of breeding clear to clear or clear to carrier in no way can an affected ever be produced. One could even, not saying that anyone would want to or that they should. But a person could even safely breed a clear to an affected and the whole would be carriers.

But at no time should a carrier ever be bred to another carrier. Because they will produce both carriers and affected dogs. The problem is not with the carriers themselves but instead the people doing the breeding. Done wrong it could turn into a big mess. But done right you would never see the affects of NCL.
 
Bottom line breeders need to be responsible for their actions and their creations! Which includes letting whoever acquires a pup or young dog from them know that the animal question is a carrier. But most aren't up to it and if people do like you are suggesting what do you think will happen? I'll tell ya what, their still going to breed their dogs! Except now they won't tell anyone or worst won't even check!  Hows that going to help the breed?

[Harp]

Cull that crap. not everyone will test. Do the right thing. No dog is that good to risk the future of the breed. You can still enjoy them just fix them.
Would you have sex with a guy with aids if he wore a rubber?

[gary fuller]

in my opinion ncl carriers can be bred safely and  at least we can test for ncl. i have prior to testing/unknowingly bred carriers and since testing have bred one carrier to a clear. this litter produced one carrier and it is spayed.i do agree that selling intact carriers to the general public is risky and should be avoided. i hear some folks say cull or alter all ncl carriers yet i see these same people breed dogs i feel should be culled due to their temperment.ncl is out there  plain and simple but the unmowing and uncareing are the ones who will generate the disease not those who are carefull who gets their dogs. again i have owned what i felt were good or exactly what i wanted in this breed except they were carriers so i am biased.
if im not wrong i think the largest number of sch titled abs  have came from gesa and if the ncl carriers behind those dogs had been culled from the gene pool all gesas dogs wouldnt exist. its folks like gesa who are working around ncl and also producing quality animals within the breed . 
and as far as i know all ncl traces directly back to  hines/boyds moleque or spagnolas cross eyed mary. both purchased from bill hines as pups but totally unrelated on paper.

[Lynda]

Cull that crap. not everyone will test. Do the right thing. No dog is that good to risk the future of the breed. You can still enjoy them just fix them.
Would you have sex with a guy with aids if he wore a rubber?

That so is not the same thing!!! 
I agree that carriers shouldn't be released into the general public willy nilly. But the real issue is not the dogs themselves but the people behind the dogs!! Most don't check for anything let alone NCL. I honestly feel your running the wrong game here. The AB has much bigger issues then NCL. Temperament is a huge one!! Not to mention CHD and for the bullies breathing problems. In that light NCL really is small potatoes. Gary brings up a great example of doing it right with Gesa.
Whether it's a work of art or a hot mess strictly depends on who's using the paints!

[Redgrrl]

Is NCL painful?  I just read for a while about it but saw nothing that directly address comfort levels.  Ataxia and CP deficits are typically non-painful (my old APBT has both, along with DJD and spondylosis which are painful), but there are instances where deep nerve pain can happen spontaneously and the dog of course can't escape the "biting" sensation. 

That was a very hard video to watch. 

[BHBUK]

Personally I think that's shit.. desirable traits associated with Ncl no offence obviously your great for the breed but that's an excuse. For instance chestnuts ozzie is affected but he's got two Ncl clear sons who are obviously amazing bulldogs why not move fwd and just use them???  Ncl should be eradicated what ever it takes

[Lynda]

Personally I think that's shit.. desirable traits associated with Ncl no offence obviously your great for the breed but that's an excuse. For instance chestnuts ozzie is affected but he's got two Ncl clear sons who are obviously amazing bulldogs why not move fwd and just use them???  Ncl should be eradicated what ever it takes

Yes, linked to NCL - example dog has good drives, OFA good hips and great temperament but happens to be a NCL carrier. Culling that out of the program could do more harm to the breed in general then leaving him and working around the NCL. There is no way to know what other genes are riding on the same DNA run/ladder with the NCL.
I think your mistaken Ozzie is not affected, he's a carrier. Big difference there and when bred to a clear produced clears. No harm no foul.
Do you all of honestly believe NCL is more of a problem to the ABs then CHD or  bad temperament? If so you are sadly mistaken there are so many more Ab's with dysplasia and bad temperament than NCL it isn't even funny. I mean crippled with it. But I don't hear you crying off with their heads! Or wanting to tar and feather the breeders or talk about putting them on public display! NCL is a drop in the bucket compared to the other stuff. All we can do is pick the stuff that is causing the most damage to the breed and deal with them and breed around the other stuff.